Regarding Facebook tracking non-users Mark Zuckerberg said "This kind of data collection is fundamental to how the internet works."

I'm not a networking expert but I know enough to be able to confidently say that nothing at all about this data collection is fundamental to how the Internet works. I guess he was using Silicon Valley speak where "the internet" means "huge corporations who make most of their money by selling ads and illegally collecting as much data as possible".

@eribloodlust @wakingrufus I think those words were chosen very carefully because it's necessary for him to make that claim to satisfy the "lawful processing" section 6 of GDPR.

The penalty for violation is rediculously high for Facebook.

@eribloodlust i am a networking expert, and i can assure you that advertising is not fundamental in any way shape or form.

The fundamental pieces are some physical cables, and protocols (IP, BGP, DNS). Advertising /may/ pay for some things, but hasn't paid a dime for the cables, IP, or BGP.

@phessler @eribloodlust And if it has, it really should not have.
(Re free basics)

@phessler @eribloodlust

let me put my "devils advocate" hat for a moment and say many submarine cables have been paid for by advertising dollars. a similar argument can be made for the current pricing & ubiquity of 100G switching gear -- "hyperscale" datacenters are because of FB & Google. which are ad companies.

@aag @eribloodlust This is not a heresy trial. And pay attention to who you're representing.

@gsonderby @eribloodlust I used the phrase "devils advocate" not in the original catholic canonization sense, but in the more modern sense of "I agree with your position, but here is some information that is contradictory to it"

I'm quite comfortable representing clear & easily explained facts.

Maybe, but do we fundamentally needed the *extra* cable and the *extra* bandwidth switches?

@hypolite @eribloodlust @aag no, and if we did, we should keep in mind that all the ads and tracking just inflated network traffic, so maybe we would not have needed more bandwidth if there wasn't so much bloat put up by ad companies
(and incompetent web developers)

@eribloodlust I know I joked about Facebook being a new OSI layer but holy fucc, I think Mark actually lowkey thinks they already are one

@eribloodlust @NerdResa clever use of "fundamental" to turn "eh, everyone does it" into some kind of noble imperative.

@eribloodlust +1

Plus the fact that he probably deliberately mixes "the Internet" with "the Web".

@eribloodlust it's not fundamental even if we pretend the internet is nothing but ad-driven websites and services.

Tracking and other privacy violations are only useful for "increasing the value" of your ad services. This is a bonus, not a base requirement for shoving ads in your face. 😕

@eribloodlust Not sure if that's the exact same context, but when asked if he thinks people are aware they are being tracked, he answered something similar. But more in the sense of "of course people know, because that's the way the internet works", in the sense that, *according to him* people are aware that including a facebook image implies a request to facebook's server which is then logged and analyzed.

Which of course is also non-trivial at all 🙄

@eribloodlust C'mon, he is absolutly right ! It is a well known fact that the internet first appeared in 2004 with the creation of facebook.

@eribloodlust while I 100% agree with the sentiment, I do not know if it what they collect is actually illegal. But I'm not a lawyer.

@eribloodlust With a lot of his answers on this topic, he was trying to answer as if the questions were in regards to web server logs.


We had a functioning internet long before pervasive data collection. This was true both before and after the dawn of the web.

Pervasive data collection is fundamental to the way Facebook works. Last time I checked, Facebook was not the entire internet.

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