why must FOSS people be like this
someone: *expresses building frustration over increasingly impossible-to-use software*
techbro: "well ACTUALLY free software is the best in terms of morality"
if someone is frustrated with a piece of free software and decides to use something else proprietary because they're in the middle of a fucking video game and need to communicate with their teammate, telling them they're making a negative moral choice by doing so is Not A Good Idea
you're not winning anyone over to your side
your making them despise you and the culture you surround yourself with that much more
techbros so often assume their opinions and knowledge to be the end-all-be-all of the universe
like everyone else, you need to learn when is an appropriate time to shut the fuck up
i am not making a commentary on the morality of free vs. proprietary software
i am making a commentary on when it is appropriate to software evangelize
@vantablack I don't know, but when you figure it out can you let me know? I wanna get them to stop 😅
@vantablack i was telling nilaky in private that, thankfully i been on T for 3 years, or they would have interrupted me during the conversation, not just the end bit when we started arguing about FOSS
but even during the early bits where i was agreeing with them
like FULL STOP.
@vantablack they screamed of cishet white boys, i *know* they would have talked over me if i had my old voice
so when i yelled at them just now, im so glad that i do have this voice because they at least heard *some* of what i said
also also been dealin with this for 3 decades almost, like havin been on the *other side*
like gloves are off, that specific user is getting hell from me
Then why were you acting like a cishet white boy?
from here on out, I will to you as non-binary...now that I know youre not a cishet white boy.
I'm *going* to assume someone is a cishet white boy when they cop that sort of attitude about FOSS.
Going over your profile right now,
there is NO indication that you are non-binary or have preferred pronouns; you are not allowed to get angry if someone gets your gender and pronouns wrong if you dont communicate it
swearing, rants about arch (1/2)
@vantablack You know what? Yes! This is almost the exact reason I stopped using Arch as much (and why I'm not even going to fucking begin to touch Gentoo) — the software could be great! the package manager could be great! but the community is so often so toxic. Like, there's this mentality that instead of a user talking to another user about <Issue X> a user is having, everybody should go "RTFM reeeee!" cause most of the loudest users of arch are often dicks
rants about arch (2/2)
@vantablack Sure, "the loudest members of ANY community usually are large misrepresentations of what the community actually stands for", but Arch dudes have been moreorless actively *promoting* this culture. FFS, Debian userbase might be old, but it doesnt go around dissing its own users in order to create clout & culture points for itself. Thats some imgboard bs.
TL;DR yes, doing (evangelicalizing FOSS mantras) and nothing else does nothing but harm for the community
how could i be judging joshua for using discord when i use discord?
how can i be a FOSS person with a windows drive?
"How can I be FOSS if" i have a macbook, windows , and a pinebook.
i have VMs on my laptop by all intents & purposes i *am* that FOSS cishet white techbro & im callin it like i see it
"never had a convo about the morality-" but you did though. in the mumble chat, in front of three other people.
"Way to assume a bunch of" i can point fingers at you and say youre assuming shit about me, except i dont care.
@verbose @vantablack you clearly missed a portion of my post that states, "thankfully i been on T for 3 years," and "also also been dealin with this for 3 decades almost, like havin been on the *other side*",
regardless how well you know me or dont, did you read this bit?
did you honestly read this bit?
that at 31 years and presenting as a man and seeing the STARK fucking contrast to how women are treated, im going to be a "bit" pissed off nowadays.
"Youre really the one who sh-" nope. you own me an apology for your attitude towards me.
you have no idea how STARK the contrast is to how women are treated in society compared to men
as soon as my voice dropped from T it felt like the veil was lifted and these societal social norms became apparent
you are a victim to the societal social norms of sexism
just please learn from this or something
i present as a male so you're right that i don't understand what it's like to be percieved female and have men mansplain and interrupt etc.
i don't blame you for assuming that someone who you're already upset with would also be worse to you if you still had a more feminine voice, but i'm glad to say that wouldn't be me
i didn't mean to judge you or be rude. that's how you percieved my words that was not the intent of my words.
when i said i've never had a convo about the morality of FOSS what I meant was I've never had that conversation before that point, that was my first time ever bringing morality into a conversation about FOSS.
okay this is my last message and the most important one.
i was in a mumble with you all, and you say something about free software sucking or how proprietary software can be better. i could not tell you were really frustrated, i just thought you were annoyed. so i said something like "i think morally it's always more agreeable to use free software" and you yelled at me that no it's not and left. you can ask alex11 that i was really confused, because i didn't know why you blew up. so there my mistake was not reading your emotions properly, i didn't know the stress you were under. my intent was not to judge you for using it, my intent was to start a conversation which by the way i've never had before. that was my first time bringing it up, i guess technically i haven't had that conversation still sorry if you think that was my contradicting myself i guess i wasn't specific enough. anyways @vantablack email@example.com makes this rant and you guys assume a bunch of stuff about me which made me angry and here we are.
again, i'm sorry for not reading you. i''m sorry for coming across as judgemental. it was not my intent, which does mean something. it doesn't mean i didn't do anything wrong, but it does mean i'm not an asshole trying to pick on others for using discord or whatever.
you don't know anything about me. i'm not a tech bro, i've never reccomended linux to everyone and i've never EVER had a conversation about the morality of FOSS. But I make one innocent mistake and you rant on masto about how I'm just a techbro or a FOSS person. And then joshua calling me cishet and white. Way to assume a bunch of shit about me that isn't true. You really should apologize
@vantablack rms cold emailed me asking me why i'm still running macOS. i wrote a 5000 word open letter reply which i have not published yet
@vantablack Like it or not, proprietary things have moral consequences. They tend to support capital accumulation by megacorps, and work against the interests of the community.
The revolution will not happen via WhatsApp.
@bob i am not making a commentary on the morality of free vs. proprietary software
i am making a commentary on when it is appropriate to software evangelize
did you read the third post???
"in the middle of a fucking video game and need to communicate with their teammate, telling them they're making a negative moral choice by doing so is Not A Good Idea"
The ***POINT*** of this conversation, was that this was not a dedicated permanent choice of software to use!
it was, in fact, a rush temporary decision, because something was needed that works!
In the middle of a bit of a rush, even.
We *(I was involved in the event in question) are very familiar with the moral consequences of using megacorp bullshit.
We do not typically use this software in this way.
This was a breakglass situation.
@bob @vantablack This was readily available if anyone took the second to check "do these new people I am meeting, know this already?" in the moment, but the other users jumped in with "well I just wanted to discuss morals" when we were saying we were in a rush.
(this problem compounded with the fact the platform was constantly kicking every user every 5 seconds. So it's unclear how much anyone actually heard of this convo)
This context was EVEN MORE AVAILABLE to you when you replied to this post, but you also are ignoring the point, and trying to shift over to your own pet point.
The complaint is nothing to do with whether you're "right" with your point. The complaint is whether you're trying to aggressively steer the topic.
we were talking about switching voice chat because we were in the middle of a game, and needed a quick solution that was stable.
i fucking know proprietary has moral consequences, just like vanta knows it does.
dont be condescending and rude to us and fucking assume.
especially since you *clearly* did not read the whole thread.
sorry to be so harsh, but im pretty pissed with this sort of attitude
@vantablack i didn't know they had the added stressor of time urgency, i thought that their frustration with free software would be a nice way to have some discussion about free software. i use discord too i wasn't hating on joshua for using proprietary software
@vantablack Coming from a FLOSS background myself, I pretty much feel you. 😟 It seems a filter-bubble problem: A lot of people in the FLOSS movement are, well, 120% tech people and have a _rather_ hard time accepting or even understanding that, for a lot of people that are way less trained, different requirements matter because it's not about making "morally correct" decisions but rather about being able to use technogy in a meaningful way at all. In the 2020s, FLOSS direly needs to become ...
@vantablack ... people-centric not technology-centric in order to really keep up with these days challenges.
@vantablack because most of them are cis men and cis men have a tendency to destroy everything they touch.