someone: *expresses building frustration over increasingly impossible-to-use software*

techbro: "well ACTUALLY free software is the best in terms of morality"

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if someone is frustrated with a piece of free software and decides to use something else proprietary because they're in the middle of a fucking video game and need to communicate with their teammate, telling them they're making a negative moral choice by doing so is Not A Good Idea

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like

you're not winning anyone over to your side

your making them despise you and the culture you surround yourself with that much more

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techbros so often assume their opinions and knowledge to be the end-all-be-all of the universe

like everyone else, you need to learn when is an appropriate time to shut the fuck up

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i am not making a commentary on the morality of free vs. proprietary software

i am making a commentary on when it is appropriate to software evangelize

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@vantablack I don't know, but when you figure it out can you let me know? I wanna get them to stop 😅

1/2 

2/2 

re: 2/2 

re: 2/2 

re: 2/2 

swearing, rants about arch (1/2) 

rants about arch (2/2) 

@vantablack

how could i be judging joshua for using discord when i use discord?

how can i be a FOSS person with a windows drive?

@verbose @vantablack "How can I be jud-" you literally were judging and being rude-

"How can I be FOSS if" i have a macbook, windows , and a pinebook.

i have VMs on my laptop by all intents & purposes i *am* that FOSS cishet white techbro & im callin it like i see it

"never had a convo about the morality-" but you did though. in the mumble chat, in front of three other people.

"Way to assume a bunch of" i can point fingers at you and say youre assuming shit about me, except i dont care.

@verbose @vantablack you clearly missed a portion of my post that states, "thankfully i been on T for 3 years," and "also also been dealin with this for 3 decades almost, like havin been on the *other side*",

regardless how well you know me or dont, did you read this bit?

did you honestly read this bit?

@verbose @vantablack
i aint know shit about you except you ignoring the posts expressing that ive experienced way too much sexism and silencing in the tech community on the whole,

that at 31 years and presenting as a man and seeing the STARK fucking contrast to how women are treated, im going to be a "bit" pissed off nowadays.

"Youre really the one who sh-" nope. you own me an apology for your attitude towards me.

@joshua @vantablack

only thing i'm sorry for is not knowing you were dealing with so much stress at the time. i was trying to have a conversation i wouldn't have initiated anything if i knew you were so angry

@joshua @vantablack

i did, but what am i supposed to say? i wasn't being sexist towards you and i'm not a sexist so this has no bearing on me. only time i interrupt others is because of my adhd which i talked about in irc last night

@verbose @vantablack my apologies for how this is going to come out but:

you have no idea how STARK the contrast is to how women are treated in society compared to men

as soon as my voice dropped from T it felt like the veil was lifted and these societal social norms became apparent

you are a victim to the societal social norms of sexism

just please learn from this or something

@joshua @vantablack

i present as a male so you're right that i don't understand what it's like to be percieved female and have men mansplain and interrupt etc.

i don't blame you for assuming that someone who you're already upset with would also be worse to you if you still had a more feminine voice, but i'm glad to say that wouldn't be me

@verbose @vantablack "i'm glad to say that wouldn't be me" it would be you though,

because you wouldnt know that you were acting sexist, it would be a blind spot

because its a societal issue that we all have been steeped in

i do not blame you, i am very pissed off though

@joshua @vantablack

just because sexism is a societal issue doesn't mean everyone is sexist

@joshua @vantablack

i didn't mean to judge you or be rude. that's how you percieved my words that was not the intent of my words.

when i said i've never had a convo about the morality of FOSS what I meant was I've never had that conversation before that point, that was my first time ever bringing morality into a conversation about FOSS.

@verbose @vantablack "that's how you percieved my words that was not the intent of my words."

this specific sentance here i want to point out, three other people heard your words- i did not "perceive" anything

intent is not the same as action by the way

@joshua @vantablack

okay this is my last message and the most important one.

i was in a mumble with you all, and you say something about free software sucking or how proprietary software can be better. i could not tell you were really frustrated, i just thought you were annoyed. so i said something like "i think morally it's always more agreeable to use free software" and you yelled at me that no it's not and left. you can ask alex11 that i was really confused, because i didn't know why you blew up. so there my mistake was not reading your emotions properly, i didn't know the stress you were under. my intent was not to judge you for using it, my intent was to start a conversation which by the way i've never had before. that was my first time bringing it up, i guess technically i haven't had that conversation still sorry if you think that was my contradicting myself i guess i wasn't specific enough. anyways @vantablack black@cybre.space makes this rant and you guys assume a bunch of stuff about me which made me angry and here we are.

again, i'm sorry for not reading you. i''m sorry for coming across as judgemental. it was not my intent, which does mean something. it doesn't mean i didn't do anything wrong, but it does mean i'm not an asshole trying to pick on others for using discord or whatever.

@vantablack
you don't know anything about me. i'm not a tech bro, i've never reccomended linux to everyone and i've never EVER had a conversation about the morality of FOSS. But I make one innocent mistake and you rant on masto about how I'm just a techbro or a FOSS person. And then joshua calling me cishet and white. Way to assume a bunch of shit about me that isn't true. You really should apologize

@verbose @vantablack do either of you want to invest in my startup? its defence-against-being-called-a-techbro-as-a-service

@vantablack rms cold emailed me asking me why i'm still running macOS. i wrote a 5000 word open letter reply which i have not published yet

@amolith @vantablack i may never publish it tbh, it's a lot of whiny finger pointing that i don't think will actually cause any meaningful productive change, despite my multiple attempts to root-cause it

@vantablack Like it or not, proprietary things have moral consequences. They tend to support capital accumulation by megacorps, and work against the interests of the community.

The revolution will not happen via WhatsApp.

@bob i am not making a commentary on the morality of free vs. proprietary software

i am making a commentary on when it is appropriate to software evangelize

@bob @vantablack HI! quick question!

did you read the third post???

"in the middle of a fucking video game and need to communicate with their teammate, telling them they're making a negative moral choice by doing so is Not A Good Idea"

The ***POINT*** of this conversation, was that this was not a dedicated permanent choice of software to use!

it was, in fact, a rush temporary decision, because something was needed that works!

In the middle of a bit of a rush, even.

We *(I was involved in the event in question) are very familiar with the moral consequences of using megacorp bullshit.
We do not typically use this software in this way.
This was a breakglass situation.

@bob @vantablack This was readily available if anyone took the second to check "do these new people I am meeting, know this already?" in the moment, but the other users jumped in with "well I just wanted to discuss morals" when we were saying we were in a rush.

(this problem compounded with the fact the platform was constantly kicking every user every 5 seconds. So it's unclear how much anyone actually heard of this convo)

This context was EVEN MORE AVAILABLE to you when you replied to this post, but you also are ignoring the point, and trying to shift over to your own pet point.

The complaint is nothing to do with whether you're "right" with your point. The complaint is whether you're trying to aggressively steer the topic.

im on cannabis 

@bob

we were talking about switching voice chat because we were in the middle of a game, and needed a quick solution that was stable.

....

i fucking know proprietary has moral consequences, just like vanta knows it does.

dont be condescending and rude to us and fucking assume.

especially since you *clearly* did not read the whole thread.

sorry to be so harsh, but im pretty pissed with this sort of attitude

~~ @joshua

@vantablack i didn't know they had the added stressor of time urgency, i thought that their frustration with free software would be a nice way to have some discussion about free software. i use discord too i wasn't hating on joshua for using proprietary software

@verbose @vantablack maybe do more of the thinking and less of the talking next time. 😘

@verbose @vantablack you do not,

and i repeat DO. NOT.

use my anger and episodes to have "nice way" to have discussions about *anything*.

you have no idea how much fucking radiation youre dealing with right now

@verbose @vantablack thank you. it is also my b for assuming, but please for the love of the gods put your pronouns in your bio atleast

@vantablack Coming from a FLOSS background myself, I pretty much feel you. 😟 It seems a filter-bubble problem: A lot of people in the FLOSS movement are, well, 120% tech people and have a _rather_ hard time accepting or even understanding that, for a lot of people that are way less trained, different requirements matter because it's not about making "morally correct" decisions but rather about being able to use technogy in a meaningful way at all. In the 2020s, FLOSS direly needs to become ...

@vantablack ... people-centric not technology-centric in order to really keep up with these days challenges.

@vantablack because most of them are cis men and cis men have a tendency to destroy everything they touch.

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