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Una is away @unascribed

I wish I didn't have to use Hangouts, Riot, Discord, IRC, Mumble, Wire, and SMS all at once

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@unascribed no Signal? (not saying you *should* or shouldn't use it)

what this also means, is I'm not joining your hot new chat system, fuck off

I'd love if everyone just used XMPP, and we almost had that, and, then we didn't

@unascribed it's so frustrating how everyone keeps re-inventing chats

seriously, Google Talk almost had everyone using XMPP!!! I was using the DuckDuckGo XMPP server to talk to people!!!! then, Google switched to a proprietary protocol with Hangouts.

honestly, we should have all seen it coming, but we didn't.

@unascribed remember when they thought wave was gonna kill email

I want to consolidate everything to Matrix/Riot, but Riot's UX is so bad right now, and it's tied to the fucking web platform

I should really make my own Matrix client

Dendrite server, HTML5 light client for low-friction adoption, Qt Linux/Windows/Mac client, and native iOS and Android clients all with a similar UI/UX would be really fucking nice, and it's technically within my ability...

fuck, I do not need more projects.... but, I do need more non-Minecraft projects... hmm...

well fuck I just talked myself into this didn't I.

does anyone have a name for it?

@Canageek it's centralized and XML-based

otherwise not really anything, but there's already a fair amount of adoption of Riot/Matrix, and all it really needs is a client that doesn't suck

@unascribed Verge, from the vector field divergence operator, which is vaguely related to matrices

@unascribed incidentally, i would contribute to such a client

@chr it'd be multiple clients implemented in the native language of their platform

so you'd probably only contribute to part of it

@unascribed i'd contribute to the windows/linux/mac client assuming its in C++ and the android client too probably

@chr C++/Qt, yeah. Android would be Java, iOS would be ObjC, HTML5 would be vanilla JS with a Java server if needed

@unascribed not sure why you'd need a server besides Dendrite, riot for example is basically a static site that does everything in js

@chr okay, cool. haven't looked at Dendrite's API, so I wasn't sure

@unascribed well be warned that afaik dendrite is still way behind synapse in terms of functionality, i'm not sure its even usable as a standalone server yet

@chr that's fine, as long as it's a drop-in replacement

I said Dendrite because I was describing my ideal scenario

since this would be like 5 clients, and not 1 client, Discord would be a perfect name for it, but that's taken :L

@unascribed i have personal reasons to dissuade you from using "fractal" but its a good name :P

(reason: my boyfriend is developing a native desktop matrix client he's calling Fractal, and even though it's taking a while i think he does intend to release it eventually)

@chr that's a good reason to not use it

there is a WIP matrix client called Fractal, so, something else

since this'll be a bunch of clients that are similar on the surface, but actually completely separate, that's sort of the theme for the name, so if you have any ideas in that vein

also if it sounds like the shitty startup of the week I'll say no

bonus points if it's a math term related to matrices or vectors

or a term related to projection in computer rendering, since those are based on matrices

and you better believe I'll ask Tyson Tan to design us a mascot once an MVP is ready

ok I think we're going with Spinor (thanks @aeonofdiscord)

@unascribed @aeonofdiscord what about spline? pronunciation is a little less ambiguous (is that "spin-or" or "spine-or"?)

@chr @aeonofdiscord one of the things that's nice about spinor is that it's a fairly obscure term, and doesn't already mean 900000 things, unlike spline

I don't think the pronunciation matters honestly

@unascribed @aeonofdiscord there's a big risk it'd be a barrier to adoption imo

@aeonofdiscord @unascribed nobody has to say "oh, message me on gif" on a regular basis

@chr @aeonofdiscord technically they should say Matrix, but yeah, I can see the issue

@unascribed @aeonofdiscord yeah but the majority of people (including me when i'm not paying attention) say "riot" right now because it's the client they see in their browser tab or mobile device

@chr @unascribed promulgate an official pronunciation. wiktionary suggests /spɪnɔɹ/ (spin-oar)

@aeonofdiscord @chr yeah, GIF has issues because nobody put their foot down until it was too late

@unascribed @chr okay, looked up videos of physicists talking about them and they all seem to pronounce it "spinner", which would be confusing, hngft

@chr @unascribed ahaha, literally nobody knows how to pronounce it. just looked it up and heard every possible variation

I did the "using GitHub as a TODO list" thing again github.com/spinor-im/

this project sounds *fun*. something is wrong

@unascribed there's no C/C++ api lib currently available

@unascribed shouldn't be too hard to build one up on top of libcurl tho

@chr who said I was going to use API libs

@unascribed well it makes it easier to focus on the main product, which is the client itself

@chr yeah, but making clients for every platform known to man is already a huge undertaking

the amount of time spent implementing an API wrapper, which is pure code, is nothing compared to the amount of time it'll take to do the UI/UX design

ok, we have one issue: I'm not a C++ dev

is diving head-first into C++ as a seasoned Java dev a reasonable thing to do?

@unascribed you're gonna experience some weirdness

but it's not as weird as it used to be

@unascribed do you have experience with something lower level, like C, ASM, or I think Rust? if so, then yes. If not, tread VERY carefully.

@impiaaa some, yes

I can do manual memory management and spend most of my time in Java fighting against the abstractions

@unascribed better than diving in as a python or ruby dev thats for damn sure

@unascribed you're probably going to need to take a couple passes at the app's architecture tho to get a handle on what makes the most sense in C++land

@chr nothing different from the java project of the week

sounds like it is. so, what's the best Qt IDE

("use a fucking text editor" is a reasonable answer and is probably what I'll do)

@unascribed I only used it briefly because I didn't get on with Qt, but it seemed: okay

@aeonofdiscord I don't think I'm going to particularly enjoy Qt either, but it seems like the best solution to cross-platform native or even nonnative UI, so

@aeonofdiscord (it says something that every Qt app I've used has been really nice on every platform)

@unascribed oh, they always feel a bit wrong to me. it definitely works for getting stuff going though

@aeonofdiscord hmm. I use a Qt-native desktop environment, so that probably helps.

I'd consider using Cocoa, GTK+ and Win32 if that didn't sound like literal torture

@unascribed I have, in the past, given this serious consideration

but it's not worth it on top of doing all the other stuff

@unascribed @aeonofdiscord I really like QTCreator. It's been flexible enough to handle QEMU's codebase without freaking out. If you enable the "ClangCodeModel" plugin you get perfect autocompletion and error reporting. Refactoring and debugging work decently.
I've also heard good things about Clion, although I haven't tried it yet.

@unascribed Qt is KDE right? What about KATE?

@Canageek Kate is an editor, not an IDE. Qt and KDE are unrelated other than KDE being built on Qt.

Kate is my text editor of choice, though.


why not qt creator? isn't that the flagship ide for qt?

@ktsukik yeah, but flagship/official/recommended does not equal good

also, for the future: what does it take to get on F-Droid?

I'm tempted to start with the web client to block out the design, but, that's unlikely to do me any favors

@unascribed you just submit it, details are on the contribute section under Submit Applications

@gracie oh, nice. I had heard this was more complicated

@unascribed it can be slow, the more work you do for them the more likely it is to happen, it's up to you to submit updates, the freedom requirements are probably the most stringent thing; it's all in the dox

@unascribed But if you mean how to get an app into their repo, I'm not sure. I think it's possible to create your own f-droid repo as the Guardian project does.

@unascribed sorry if you've already checked into this, but here's a link


seems you package up some metadata (if you choose to/can) and submit a request

@unascribed I just recently started using QT Creator and it's not too terrible. If you like JetBrains goodies, CLion is worth checking out, too (if you're down with CMake).

I hate JetBrains software, but thanks for the suggestion

@unascribed Yeah, no worries. I'm a java dev by day so I've had to learn to love Intellij (otherwise it'd be Eclipse *shudder*). Might want to check out QT Creator, though. Or there always vim + ctags :D

@unascribed i dont really know anything, but as long as you are careful with constructors i dont see why just noodling round isn't going to be productive

@unascribed Dot (completely unsearchable so maybe combine with something?)

@chr yeah I was thinking dot product / cross product as well

but they're both completely unsearchable, as said, so...

@aeonofdiscord kind of conflicts with TensorFlow, imo

@unascribed (has the advantage that it doesn't already mean 3848034 other things)

@unascribed i don't think i'd be of any help with development but i do very much support this idea

@unascribed come help out with nheko instead (github.com/mujx/nheko)

I just contributed the communities sidebar (like the one Discord has) and theme support

I don't think you want my shitty C++ code

and a lot of what I want here is a consistent experience between all platforms, and a similar web client since that's most peoples' first exposure to Matrix

@unascribed I've actually been thinking about the potential for a version of nheko for mobile devices (same name, icon, general look)

@unascribed I use XMPP.

I should probably set up an account that isn't also my email address, so that I can post it publicly without being an open invitation to spam-email bots.

* wishes Prosody IM supported aliases *

@unascribed I choose just use IRC, Matrix, SMS, and Masto; anyone who isn't on one of those isn't cool enough to matter anyway 🔥