I do wish people wouldn't post things that amount to "ha ha, people use Linux and care about owning their computing time, imagine how much more they'd get done if they didn't."

I wouldn't be getting more done, I'd be in another industry.

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"wow why don't people like it when software companies market their software as working on their computers, when in fact the software only incidentally works on their computers due to an unrelated project"

i can't imagine

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"haha look at all those audio APIs on Linux. they can't even decide on one way to do this simple thing" that's because it's not simple. general case routing of audio and MIDI is a really hard problem. people pay hundreds of dollars to solve it.

"wow Linux is so hard to develop for. there are so many distributions and so many sets of libraries." yeah you don't ship your games for Windows Server 2019 either. just pick a distro and ship. maybe ask around a bit.

look i'm sorry i'm salty but i'm simultaneously dealing with Microsoft destroying free software's legal protections, people i respect incessantly making fun of the only thing that makes computers usable for me, and the death of my father. fuck you

@tindall If I was a developer I would simply fix all the problems of computers instead of adding new ones, easy

@elomatreb @tindall If I was a developer I would simply dab, and the sheer majesty of my perfect form would render all problems irrelevant.

@tindall just a stranger but hug! That must be fucking awful

@tindall@cybre.space Microsoft deserves to be broken up into smaller companies, and Windows made to be open source.

@tindall Isn't shipping and software separate either? Like you make some open source code and the distribution managers then package it?

@x44203 yeah but that's generally not possible for e.g. games folks because they'd have to make their software at least somewhat understandable to maintainers and that's not good for some reason

@x44203 this is one reason Valve is so good for Linux gaming. They act like repository maintainers, but for a large class of proprietary software, and have lawyers who can make that work. Very useful!

@tindall πŸ¦‹ besides which we’ve gotten tons of games intended for ubuntu to work fine on arch without much trouble, there’s not that much difference between distros

@tindall πŸ¦‹ like pick one to support and we will make it work on the rest on our own Linux is like that

@changeling @tindall

Yeah, it’s pretty much always possible. I have a copy of the Humble Bundle Linux port of Torchlight that broke sometime after release. Turns out, it was incompatible with newer libsdl and it was pretty simple to find an old version from a previous distro release and drop it in the dir.

That fixed it.

And good luck doing that with a Windows XP system dll.

@tindall
DirectX revisions also introduced and discarded lots of audio apis.

@loonycyborg @tindall the cool thing about windows is that all the old APIs stay in their test suite 😸

@tindall I kept bringing a variation of this up whenever I heard (iOS) developers complain about Android fragmentation.

Yes, it exists. Just like the problem that on the desktop there are a gazillion different resolutions to consider, and you may have an API on one desktop platform but not the other.

Android's fragmentation is only hard if the only yardstick you know is the monoculture of Apple. Even Microsoft has more variety in their OS products to target.

Same here, really.

@jens Saying iOS doesn't have fragmentation is just dumb, you have to develop for the 1,500 iPhones and iPads that have been released in the past five years, but unlike Android where you get emulators for most system versions and flagship phone models for free with the Android SDK on all platforms; with Apple you either have to buy all the hardware to test on or buy a Mac and pay out the ass every year for the Apple Developer Program to get the iOS Simulator.

@tindall

@tindall You don't even need to target a distro. Appimage, Flatpak, and Snap are all a thing, pick one of those and everything fit for daily use will run them.

@tindall Linux is hard to develop for?

I have zero fucking idea where to even begin with Windows. :blobugh:

@Jo @tindall

Fun fact: if you use Wine and the mingw cross compiler, you can do Windows dev without having to touch Windows.

@suetanvil @tindall I feel like that would be revenge on every game dev that shit out a Linux version of their game without properly testing it. :blob_laughing:

@Jo @tindall

FWIW, I generally don't resent gamedevs for cheaping out on the Linux port. Linux is on <2% of PCs and not really friendly to running shrinkwrapped binaries out of the box so from a cost-benefit PoV, I'm surprised *anyone* ports games to it at all.

@suetanvil @tindall I mean also, not producing a port at all would be preferable to releasing a port without any kind of testing, thinking it would behave the same regardless of platform. :blobtilt:

@suetanvil @tindall A lack of a port is one thing, releasing a port that doesn't even behave close to intended, later admitting you did zero testing and making excuses that you can't afford to install the OS (in this case Linux) to test it yourself is... horrendous on so many levels.

@Jo @tindall

Ouch!

(I mean, I guess it'd be forgivable if they didn't claim to support Linux and then tossed it out as an unofficial freebie for people who bought Windows version, but I'm guessing it's not that.)

@suetanvil Or you just do what Steam does and say β€œWe only support Ubuntu LTS xx.xx, it might work on your distro but we won't provide any support if it doesn't.”

@Jo @tindall

@nytpu @Jo @tindall

That pretty much what everyone who ships Linux binaries does. That and build against the oldest version available.

@tindall I want to give you the world's biggest soapbox right now, to give you better footing.

@tindall You know what I find interesting about those different audio APIs? Anymore they're mostly different means for the exact same components to communicate together.

To be clear I don't see this is as being ugly, but a mildly amusing illustration of a common strength of free software! Successful projects tend to accrue support for all the protocols, etc!

@tindall Somewhat related story: I once had a wifi dongle which advertised Linux support. Turned out it provided a driver you could install against an old kernel version. No way was I going to downgrade to a Meltdown-vulnerable kernel, so I got a refund!

So lesson learned: Be suspicious if the hardware vendor hasn't contributed the driver upstream leaving you to need to install it!

Happy ending: Linux has now figured out how to utilize my laptop's builtin wifi card.

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