Some of you people actually think Microsoft isn't going to screw you over and it shows

I know some people I respect work there but holy _shit_ y'all

They consistently build user hostile software that trades on attention and tolerance of their bullshit because there's no other option

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Using some cool trendy technologies and open sourcing some unprofitable shit doesn't negate the irreversible harm they've done to the industry and it's really not okay to participate in that

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Like oh yeah MS loves Linux and open source now, sure, but that's because they _won_. Free desktops are essentially zero in the market, even Mac OS isn't a viable option for a lot of people, and they successfully capitalize on that in extremely predatory ways

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Case in point: This fucking bullshit, in which MS tramples an existing Linux project's trademark and, when this is brought to their attention, tell everyone to just calm down:

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"Microsoft loves Linux", huh?

"so you like this cute little side project... the likelihood is that most people probably never heard of it before today. [...] The reality is I highly doubt anybody heard of MauiKit, and frankly nobody cares."

Oh, look. Microsoft takes an open source project and rebrands it as a Microsoft project, totally screwing over its creator in the process. Legal? Yes. Moral? Fuck no.

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Fuck Microsoft. They take FOSS work, both technical and conceptual, without so much as attribution; they collaborate with the police and ICE; they destroyed the personal computing market almost singlehandedly.

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@tindall I wonder how many people who are so enamored with modern Microsoft were around back when they tried this before. There's a ton more people into programming and tech than there was 20-25 years ago when "embrace, extend, extinguish" was the plan of attack by them.

My hope would be most people wouldn't just forget about that... but then again, my faith in human logic has been shaken much in recent times.

@uint8_t @tindall this isn't Microsoft, but:

Overwatch was a really fun asymmetric FPS/RTS... until Blizzard made Overwatch.

@tindall it is so fucking terrifying that Microsoft bought NPM. They can shut down the entire free web at any moment

@datatitian @tindall "the entire free web" 😂 That is some great satire about Node.js

@vsedach @tindall ah yes forgot all those popular websites with no front-end. My bad

@datatitian @tindall @vsedach Not everyone builds SPAs. A large part of the web is just web and doesn't need a node_modules.

@clacke @tindall @vsedach
Are you speaking from some experience here? I've never worked on a modern project that isn't using at least a transpiler, minifier, and a bundler. Do you have any examples?

@datatitian @clacke @vsedach I strongly suspect a "No True Scotsman" argument is coming here - if it _doesn't_ use [x, y, z], is it really "modern"?

It's entirely possible to build websites, even web applications, without JavaScript. I suggest you take a listen to The Bikeshed from ThoughtBot, they talk a lot about when they do and don't reach for JavaScript in client projects.

@tindall @clacke @vsedach I mean modern by date - something currently in production. I just checked Wikipedia because that was the only one I could think of that might not have complex JS, but even that has a minified script - therefore requiring NPM to deploy. Again do you have any examples?

@datatitian @clacke @vsedach Sure. My blog. I update it at least monthly. It has one JavaScript dependency, which is optional and not minified.

@tindall @datatitian @clacke there's if you're looking for non-required non-minified scripts

@datatitian @tindall @clacke that's literally just a substring of the hash of the script

@ben @tindall @clacke so you write them in UMD format and do the hashing & renaming on the server-side?

@ben @tindall @clacke alright, I'm impressed. We'd still have one website with npm 👍

@datatitian @vsedach A large part of the web is driven by CMSes invented before WebPack and friends. Maybe there's some minified stuff like @tindall says below, but you don't need npm to minify, and it's not even necessary to minify things if it comes to that.

@datatitian @tindall @clacke "minified script - therefore requiring NPM to deploy" I don't even know where to start with something like that. I wrote a minifier for Parenscript in 21 lines of code. Y'all need to learn how to program.

@vsedach @tindall @clacke I just got out of a vr meeting in my web browser than spanned multiple, federated virtual worlds with people hundreds of miles apart, but y'all go ahead and enjoy your web 1.0 sites 👍

@datatitian @tindall @clacke Thank you! I have been enjoying them very much! emacs-w3m is an awesome web browser, and re-doing my blog/website as static no-JavaScript accessible HTML generated by a short Makefile turned out to be one of the better decisions I made in 2018.

@tindall "And then, I didn’t hear anything back from anyone at Microsoft for six months." Promises of corporate acquisition/partnership to steal ideas was standard Microsoft practice in the 1980s and 1990s. This Keivan guy basically did a bunch of very high value consulting for Microsoft for free.

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