Tell me again how FOSS (which I love and use and contribute to!) has a culture that is totally normal and not just a playground for hateful nerdboys?
The "arguments" here, by the way, all amount to one of a few things.
1. All words are offensive to someone. (Patently untrue.)
2. I'm disabled and this isn't offensive to me. (Not relevant.)
3. Forking a GPL project and changing the name is evil. (Nonsensical, as far as I can tell.)
4. Nobody should ever be upset when someone uses a slur that refers to them.
This last is perhaps the most concerning - and yet, quite common.
@tindall Re: #3, also none of these guys lost their shit at the rebrand-forks of Firefox like Iceweasel or whatever, so...
4. Disturbs me in ways that I did not think were possible.
That said all of those points, are very trash excuse. None of them have any kind of validity.
The fact that they get rehashed over and over and over again, angers me. These people are making floss look bad, I cannot and will not accept that.
GIMP as a name is neither here nor their to me, I get that because of the abrevation... it looks assocated to the word gimp and can be taken as insulting.
Just a sad coincidence, and ultimately it would be up to the core developers to change the name if they have an issue with it.
So far they haven't, so I guess they will live with it as the program continues it's massive overhaul.
@tindall it is really exhausting that these arguments have been repeated for decades despite not being good at all
Because very few of those users, if any, seriously contribute to any project let alone GIMP.
It's a fork, if they have the people-power... It will keep going. If not... It won't. And to be honest, I am not sure that Glimpse will survive, GIMP itself has issues with contributers if only because what they are doing is not easy to jump into. Glimpse will has to contend with the same problem.
It's not just an image/marketing issue.
If they hit the big 1.0 and they're in a good state, then open source good to have them around. If not, they're just yet another abandoned fork.
I don't see the point in raising a fuss over it simply because the devs wanted another name, there are bigger issues to contend with.
@nik the name of the project, which is shown in offensive acronym form in a big unskippable splash screen, in the title, etc etc
@nik Totally! I don't want to re-live this whole conversation here - suffice it to say that much ink was shed on this topic - but the ultimate resolution was that the software should be re-branded entirely. Hence Glimpse, which recently cut its first release.
@nik yeah! This is one really nice thing about the name change forcing a fork - there are changes that would (imo anyway) benefit UX massively that are blocked on maintainer stubbornness, which will hopefully be resolved in Glimpse
In either case though, I can pitch Glimpse to my design professor. I could not do that for GIMP without being dismissed out of hand.
@nik but my point in this thread is one I think you're kind of missing. The devs if GIMP justify their stubbornness with "if you don't like it, fork it". Someone called their bluff and now lots of people (you included!) are trying to tell them not to do that.
It's possibly worth examining why that is.
@nik but isn't the whole pitch of FOSS "if you don't like it you can change it"?
These people didn't like it. They changed it. Now they can use it, and so can I. Why does it need to be more than that?
@nik (it's also worth pointing out that upstream rejects changes intended to make white labelling/rebranding easier even if they don't actually change the branding, so it's hard to argue that individuals or distributions should do branding changes, as we often see in e.g. Firefox)
@nik what can I tell you. Everyone says they're surprised. Go to your boss or prof or local library and say "I'd like to install the GIMP on your computer" and tell me what happens. I'll give you odds it ain't great.
@nik that's awesome, thank you for spreading Foss in the world and I'm glad nobody got in a tizzy about it!
I've not had that experience, and I suspect it's somewhat exceptional.
@nik @tindall I think it depends highly on cultural context. There are clearly some places where the name is controversial. It seems to be very US-centric, I believe as I have lived in both Europe and Asia and never seen this being controversial.
This does remind me of the time when Honda released a car which turned out to not sell very well in my home country (Sweden). They didn't realise that model the name translated to "Cunt".
@loke yeah, that's a hilarious incident
Gotta be careful if you're distributing stuff internationally!
@nesc @nik yes. Sadly, I live in one of those English speaking countries, and the issue isn't that _I_ have to edit images - the issue is that design classes here are taught exclusively in Photoshop, including stuff like quizzes on the function of different buttons!
I tried proposing that we use a free and open image editor and was told we couldn't use "amateur software with a disgusting name".
Yes, I think the prof was wrong. And yet, how do I solve that?
The only reason people are shitting on Glimpse is because they love to find the specter of eeeeeeevil SJWism anywhere they can.
Well, if you have classes that include quizzes on button positions, you have bigger problems than program names. 😿
I am all for forking, just won't recommend this fork for a few years. If it will be still around in a year or two, good.
Also please stop being this antagonistic I am not even against glimpse and you. 😅
@tindall @nesc @nik Ah, this is meaningful background! The professor is closed-minded and doesn't understand open-source software at all. The name change might not be enough to solve this, even if it's a steep in the right direction.
GIMP, Blender, Ardour, Rosegarden, and and Inkscape have made major impacts on media production, but a lot of people remain ignorant of how useful they are at any price. This is another big issue limiting GIMP acceptance, including by your instructor.
@hutchinsonmini Indeed. The name change is an incremental improvement only - it is, as they say, necessary but not sufficient.
@tindall tbh I'll put windows xp in a VM and use MSPaint before I use that program again because of all the vitriol I see around it coming from the hateful nerdboys
@tindall I, for one, have started using builds from their Git tree to as I think the #Glimpse team are right to carry on with the fork and if I get to catch some issue I would rather report bugs and/or contribute small patches to them. Also the Glimpse branding is much visually pleasant to me, and looks more like there's a group of actual digital artists involved, instead of being programmer art (not that GIMP's was, but my feeling is a bit like that). I hope the project succeeds!
@tindall I’m so glad someone finally forked & renamed it. This is one of FOSS’s greatest strengths, and it seems like anyone who criticizes it has a narrow idea of freedom.
@tindall May be it was unintentional, or not. I really don't care as long as it written in CAPS. The *thing* you are referring does not comes in my mind.
PS: English is my second language.
@tindall wow, this is so true, already stop to follow the work of some blogs by the butthurt of them. They can't stand for a fork? Like they are the owner of the soft, when it is a f*****g open thing.
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