The thing people miss about #desktop #Linux is: it's not that Linux users are using Linux purely for ideology, in most cases. If I could get everything done on Windows in a similar amount of time with a similar level of satisfaction, I probably would.
But I can't. I can't use a tiling WM. I can't use BTRFS or ZFS for my external storage cluster. I can't have a decent package manager or functioning containerization or a command-line driven workflow.
I can't tune my power saving parameters. I can't have ten workspaces that I switch between easily. I can't use the custom symbol inserter I wrote, which is way faster than any other I've used on _any_ platform.
I can't get my work done as effectively. I also wouldn't enjoy it! Using windows annoys me constantly with little things: the way the start menu works, the way applications lay themselves out on the screen, the way the login screen works, the network preferences and device listing being buried.
All this to say: don't come after desktop Linux because it doesn't solve your problems as well as other operating systems.
Linux and the free software ecosystem are developed by volunteers. We cannot expect them to be at the same level of support and polish as commercial software products.
I don't "enjoy the kind of computing we had in the mid 2000s". It solves my problems and nothing else does. Please don't condescend to me and people like me and/or assume that things would somehow be easier elsewhere.
@tindall I can't use half the flexibility linux gives, but what I can use just makes everything better. A few times I've ended up with a Windows computer, and I've never lasted more than a few months before getting fedup and re-formatting as linux.
@tindall I am with you 100%. Linux feels like it was made specifically for me. Windows feels like it was made for someone who has a completely different set of needs so far removed from my own that it's almost comical.
@tindall i completely agree with what you are saying.
just want to add a minor bit of context about the volunteer community around desktop linux. i know for a fact that some of the commercial players in the open source world (eg Red Hat, SUSE, Canonical) are putting time and money into improving this, but it's still an uphill battle.
we've come a long way since the days of /only/ volunteer contributors, and i think the success of FOSS in the datacenter and embedded worlds are validations of that effort.
@tindall Windows has an enormous "you can't get there from here" problem. like they built lots of roads but when it came to crossing a deep gorge or a river, they gave up and went home.
(and to be fair, while I might never be using Linux at the desktop level, I still use it and have basic knowledge of it -- and I'm going to be growing it as I work on embedded systems for my projects)
I know writers who use Macs specifically because they need Vellum, too.
I like being able to run updates when it's convenient for me.
I like being able to google problems and finding clear instructions for command line solutions on 4 different websites.
I like easy-to-set-up character mapping for my conlangs.
I like having seperate workspaces (on Mint).
I like customizable-everything if I'm willing to take the time to learn how.
@tindall for some of us, it's both. :^) the libre stuff better fits my workflow _and_ my beliefs.
i used dos and windows in the early/mid 90s, and was badly burned by several "vital" programs being lost due to company bankruptcy, version incompatibility, etc. the world nearly lost blender to that fate, but in the first crowdfunding campaign i was aware of, we rescued and liberated it.
@tindall For me it's half that I like using KDE and half that I expect to have some level of control over my system. Windows 10 is super opaque and controlling and I don't think I could stand to use it for very long
@tindall To give another angle, I stay because I find that the single best GUI was developed around GNU/Linux.
There's many different types of us, many systems to satisfy those different types, and many different reasons to stay.
@tindall Honestly, that *is* the ideology! What you describe sound a lot like freedom.
Maybe not in the FSF-four-freedoms way, but I consider the four freedoms as the cause of the freedom you describe.
People have the freedom to make, improve and distribute the software *they* like (and not the software that makes the most money or is otherwise not in your interest).
And that is often the software you and I like.
And when you use that software, have a nice workflow, you *feel* the freedom. You might not think about it, but you feel it! And it feels great, doesn't it?
@tindall I use Linux because it provides freedom in both the ideological and the practical sense.
Linux is made to serve its users, proprietary systems are made to coerce users into serving corporations.
@tindall When using Linux, I feel like the computer is helping me do the stuff I want done. With windows, it feels like I am doing stuff for the computer. It’s mostly a feeling or a mood I guess, as I could probably get everything done on a windows as well, even if it’s always nagging at me for something I didn’t do or buy. But the windows updates just killed it for me.
@RampantPanda @tindall Good description, I feel similar. But it only happened after consciously dropping some layers of perceived comfort and accepting to sometimes dig deep to find out why stuff doesn't work.
But once you realize you CAN dig deep if you want and need to, it feels like a big enabler.
@tindall at least at the tiling WM department, there are options for Windows: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiling_window_manager#Third-party_addons
You can also replace the start menu but I haven't really tried anything past the classic shell restorer after the Windows 8 fiasco.
ｃｙｂｒｅｓｐａｃｅ: the social hub of the information superhighway
jack in to the mastodon fediverse today and surf the dataflow through our cybrepunk, slightly glitchy web portal