* new kind of browsers needed *
time to replace js with lua
@mmu_man @mozilla

@hansbauer @jorin @mozilla I wonder if NetSurf would accept support for <script type="text/lua"> :D

@mmu_man @hansbauer @jorin@catgirl.science @mozilla
tbh with JS to Lua transpilers kinda already existing, LuaJIT might be good enough for everyday browsing

but what if, What If!!! we just... don't put scripting into browsers.... and build better OSs instead

kinda what @Shamar is doing

@mmu_man @hansbauer @jorin@catgirl.science @mozilla @Shamar

like, getting a new, majorly backwards incompatible technology accepted is always a big hurdle so why not fix the issue at the right level of abstraction and yeet the browser stack out the window together with bad kernels and userspaces?

if we always think about backward compatibility, we will be made eternal. slaves of the tech giants. better do something new and better.
@mmu_man @jorin @mozilla @Shamar

@hansbauer @grainloom @mmu_man @jorin @mozilla

An operating system don't need to be complex and large.

#Jehanne strives for #simplicity and it's small: jehanne.io

It's also a distributed #OS that derive from #Plan9 but diverges on important aspects: it's more radical and... more broken 😇

#9front is a serious distributed OS that is still small: it follows the "Worse is Better" design style, while Jehanne's style can be summarized a Simplex Sigillum Veri.


@hansbauer @grainloom @mmu_man @jorin @mozilla

As for #JS (or #WASM) and @mozilla there is a lot to say: did they informed you of the wide class of undetectable attacks that you are vulnerable to through #Firefox?


No they didn't despite the exploits above.

Would you take a drug a stranger push you to? No?

So why you blindly execute programs that can be customized for you?

Because it's convenient?

Why it is?


@hansbauer @grainloom @mmu_man @jorin @mozilla @mozilla

#Javascript is convenient to user because they don't need to download and install software.
Except that they download it and install it (in the browser cache) but such software cannot be verified for authenticity: you cannot check the SHA512 of each #JS, each #WASM, each #HTML and each #CSS you download against a standard and well known source that everybody see (like the Debian repository, for example).

You have to trust the server..

@hansbauer @grainloom @mmu_man @jorin @mozilla @mozilla

... each #CDN they trust, all #CA existing, their hosting provider, the cloud provider that their hosting provider resell and obviously each employees of all of these corporations (most of which headed in the #US).
Oh... and you have to trust who wrote the #browser and the machine (which is actually under your responsibility).

Now you surely know this, but if you connect the dots you see how a #JS could be customized by a CDN for you


@grainloom @mmu_man
i certainly know all that. i was just suggesting to play around new scripting engines, new concepts of browsers, even new concepts of protocols. i didn't mean to solve actual problems with browsers as we have or operating systems at large. we are talking about different things here.

@hansbauer @grainloom @mmu_man

@alcinnz is hacking #Memex in this space: a #browser that doesn't need #JavaScript to distribute #HyperTexts, but use a more powerful markup language and more powerful style sheets.

For #Jehanne I'm hacking a file protocol, #FP (I don't have much fantasy 🤣 ) that is simpler but more powerful and expressive than #9P2000 (and probably broken... but you know, you can't learn anything if you are afraid to fail) and will replace #NFS, #SMB and #HTTP.

Sign in to participate in the conversation

cybrespace: the social hub of the information superhighway jack in to the mastodon fediverse today and surf the dataflow through our cybrepunk, slightly glitchy web portal support us on patreon or liberapay!