@somethingRight it's closed source and for profit, they record EVERYTHING, their desktop client is js based and a memory hog, and most importantly it's used as home base for terrible people to do terrible things.

@popefucker
I agree that being closed source sucks, and that recording data is shitty, but i wouldn't say that makes it harmful. I don't blame them for doing what they have to to keep their business afloat, even if i don't like it. And i dont think that shitty people using it is their fault, i guarantee if it was open source and instance based like mastodon is, there'd be arguably more shitty people

@somethingRight see, the difference is that I absolutely *do* blame them for that.

The fact that discord is considered "the standard", when matrix and mumble exist and work perfectly fine for the same use case, even among FOSS supporters, is very troubling to me.

@popefucker
I think that discord is how they are because, quite honestly, discord is a MUCH better platform in terms of usability.

I don't think they should be considered the standard in terms of business practices, but i think as a platform, purely from a usability standpoint, they're easily the best in the game

@popefucker
Don't get me wrong, i don't like discord as a business. But i honestly haven't found any platforms that match discord in ease of use, aesthetics, good quality video and voice chat, easily manageable servers, all with reliable servers and a good basic chat system. If there's anything that meets those points please enlighten me, I'd love to know

@popefucker
Mumble costs money, and from the times I've used it its ease of use, aesthetics, and voice chat quality are all subpar

@somethingRight @popefucker Ive been running a matrix server for a while and I find that voice calls and even group video are way easier and less buggy on riot/matrix

@postmasterdoggo @somethingRight I didn't like matrix when I used it a while ago, the chat sync was very delayed. Might have just been the shitty ass server I was on though.

I also have a few gripes with the network infra. But meh, maybe when the ipfs network is fancier we can all switch to something based on that

@popefucker @somethingRight

very good benefit: matrix is federated and I can join rooms on other servers.

@somethingRight
It costs next to nothing to set up a server, and a huge amount of people can use it.

I, personally, have never found any reason to use discord over mumble.

Anyway, when the service is free, you're the product :)

@popefucker
I never said i wanted to like discord, but there's no way you can argue that discord isnt much easier for more people to use, being web based and free. I know that they sell data, and that's bad, but so does your phone. So does your search engine. If you stop using a better product due to selling data, then sadly, itll just get sold by something else you use

@somethingRight that's where you're wrong. My phone has a libre ROM and no google apps, my search engine explicitly says they don't sell user data in their privacy policy

@somethingRight and, IMO, selling data makes it a *worse* product.

This is just a question of values. If you value different things than me, that's fine, but the annoying thing to me is that some people are only available on discord and I hate having to use it. I can't even put it in a chroot jail because that breaks the client

@somethingRight @popefucker

Defeatism is so stupid. Minor improvements to security work wonders.

If youve ever had a stalker, an abuser, if you are a targeted minority are all good reasons to be security conscious. I dont want google having my data because I might work for them in the future and they dont need to know enough about me to take advantage of me as an employee.

We should fight to normalize security consciousness.

Also Matrix is on par with discord in terms of ease of use.

@postmasterdoggo

@popefucker

I do agree its stupid, i just hadn't heard of any alternatives. Thanks for introducing me to matrix, I'll look into it

@somethingRight @popefucker If you agree that defeatism is stupid, then you have to backtrack on that whole "whatever your phone is doing it anyways" thing.

@postmasterdoggo

@popefucker

I agree its stupid, but im not gonna try and act like something isn't almost always tracking you

@somethingRight @popefucker
just cause its impossible to be anonymous 101% of every waking moment doesnt excuse data collection practices. thats like the "but he started it!" of privacy
@popefucker @somethingRight I wasnt taking anything personally. I apologize if I came off as heavy handed.
@popefucker @somethingRight it also hits a little close to home, having had to evade family members trained in infosec, and having friends that have had to learn entirely too much compsci to get away from abusers.

@postmasterdoggo

@popefucker

I'm really sorry to hear that, i hope things get better for you and your friends.

On a related note, this whole conversation has motivated me to make what everyone deserves from a chat client.

@somethingRight @postmasterdoggo an end-to-end encrypted chat client based on the IPFS pubsub network?

@somethingRight @popefucker Nice! I am trying to make a better integrated (native) Signal desktop client myself.
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