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Calling smartphone equipped teenagers 'digital natives' is a mistake because a smartphone makes you a consumer rather than a native of anything.

If you want a child to become a digital native give them an actual computer instead of a corporate controlled and curated consumer device.

@sindastra at this point I'd settle with them knowing how to move a file into an external drive.

@sindastra @polychrome
Smartphones and tablets are so dumbed down that kids don't know how to do basic things like moving/saving files.
See this Apple ad:
invidio.us/watch?v=pI-iJcC9JUc

@koto @sindastra that ad makes me sad because the kid is using a computer without the freedom of a computer, therefor it's not a computer. 🤷

@polychrome @koto Look up Windows 10 S then. It will make you sad. Turns a real computer into a locked down app-store-only-apps computer. 🤷‍♀️

@koto @sindastra @polychrome i wouldn't really say "dumbed down" so much as actively user-hostile, locked down and imprisoning

damn things take a genius to figure out how to transfer files where the same action on a pc would be straightforward

@polychrome @sindastra I have an android phone which makes that task easier than an iPhone and it still is awful. Only a particular program on my computer works. At least I can use an SD card though.

@wistahe Honestly, even with a microSD card, it still sucks. The things literally require adapters to work in PCs.

And if you go the reverse method and put it directly to a USB thumb drive, you need an OTG adapter and the assurance that the battery is charged enough to last through the transfer because heaven forbid we be allowed to charge and use the USB port at the same time... >.>

@polychrome Smart phones have done so much damage to digital literacy it's ridiculous.

@lordbowlich I think we'd have gotten there anyway because OS interfaces were already in a slide toward making computers as simple as possible.

Smartphones had the advantage of starting from a relative blank slate and taking the deep dive into the safely padded walled garden all the way right at the beginning.

@lordbowlich

Oh tell me about it...
It seems like people know less about technology now when they are basically covered with it

@polychrome

@polychrome all i see in kids who grew up with smartphones are uneducatable dipshits with completely shot reward systems

@polychrome I think this is confusing infrastructure with environment to an extent. It’s entirely possible to be very good at navigating and using online services without being able to write software, and vice versa.

@ghost_bird oh I wasn't really considering writing software - it was more like the way the device either locked or nudging you to install only approved software from the corporation's software repository, and your communications go through corporation owned and curated communication platforms with profit incentives.

On an actual computer you have the possibility to.. well, not end up like that.

@polychrome Still two distinct skill sets though, I think - one’s primarily social and one’s primarily technical. It would be good for people to have more easy opportunities to get technical if they want to, of course, but it’s a separate hobby not a casual/hardcore distinction.

@polychrome (Disclaimer: I seem to be unusual in that I work in IT but don’t particularly enjoy tinkering in my free time, so I have a slightly different perspective on this.)

@ghost_bird @polychrome from what i've seen critical thinking and lateral thinking haven't gotten worse, but it does seem like each generation of "computer users" is more and more alienated from how you get from the ones and zeroes and timed electrical signal resistances to interactive moving pictures on a screen.

(saying this as a millennial who's tried to write games since age 12, got klik 'n' play and then didn't know how bitmasks worked until his mid 30s)

@polychrome I thought I would quickly become obsolete as the next generation entered the workforce, them having had access to computers and the internet for all of their lives. But then mainstream computing went to heck.

@polychrome Amen!
Like that uncle I was introduced to because 'he liked computers', he liked certain websites and was browsing that all day and did NOT like computers like I, a then 16yr old, did at the time and even now.

Spend time behind a screen is not a good indication of 'love for computers'.

@polychrome I like to read that as "Digital Naive" instead, that's often more appropriate.

@polychrome and learn CS unplugged, no need to actually start with a computer
csunplugged.org/en/

@polychrome I heard this at a french hacker conference "if you are talking about how dumb youngsters are, you are already too old."

I totaly get how disturbing it is to see the teens embracing the "geek culture" without being part of it on the practical level. But remember, at the time, tech afficionados were a minority. They still are.

@otyugh in that case I was already too old since I was 14. :thonking:

(missing CW) Terran horribleness, capitalism 

(missing CW) Terran horribleness, capitalism 

re: (missing CW) Terran horribleness, capitalism 

@polychrome My 8-year old is completely obsessed with their Raspberry Pi. It's annoying but great

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