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pawlowa @pawlowa

One thing I don't understand is people complaining about graffiti on trains and walls but they couldn't be bothered a bit by ads being everywhere in our daily life actively and literally trying to manipulate everybody's thoughts and actions. But it's legit because that access to your brain is bought with money.

· Tusky · 151 · 172

In conclusion: tag the world and bust all ads!

@pawlowa I think the crux of it is that graffiti challenges people's perceptions of authority. But it's messed up that people seem to be fine with being manipulated by adverts, but have something against artwork.

@MichaelBall This is the thing. I don't want to discuss aesthetics. I don't like most graffiti aesthetically but I love how people just take that space without being concerned about who owns this wall or train and who decides what we see there.

@pawlowa yeah I appreciate the intent behind it, even if I don't end up liking the piece itself.

I'm in two minds about tagging though. In the UK tagging has been associated at times with violent gangs claiming certain areas as their territory. Not so much into that.

@MichaelBall That sounds rather offputting. In Germany there are kind of graffiti gangs, but it's really just about the pieces, doing stunts like covering a whole building in one night or placing your tag on trains in like 10m². But there is no violence behind it, it's rather like a playful illegal sport.

I also like it when I come to a new place and I can see which political groups are active there through graffiti. It gives me a lot of safety.

@pawlowa yeah I definitely agree it's a great way of getting a sense of the politics of the area.

Unfortunately one of my experiences of that was seeing swastika graffiti when I was staying in Bulgaria. I didn't feel so safe then.

@MichaelBall Yeah, not only for feeling safe but also for being aware of dangerous areas.
Either way, graffiti is a great way to gain some orientation, it gives the physical space another whole new level of social and symbolic interaction.

@pawlowa @MichaelBall

this property damage scosts the tax payer millions.
Because it's to the grafitti artists who pay for the infrastructure they manipulate

@pawlowa @MichaelBall

> through graffiti. It gives me a lot of safety.

I get your point about political groups.
But does it really make you feel safe, that this person had illegal access to this piece of the infrastructure you rely on? For example, tagging trains is usually done in the locked down train yards at night (AFAIK).
Instead of repainting the train they could just as well be re-wiring it, removing the brake, ... etc.

@pawlowa I definitely like the idea of reclaiming "empty" space though.

@pawlowa put graffiti up as ads. I mean that literally.

much of the graffitis are just kinda ordinary adds. I really dislike all (most) those tags. All (many) having a similiar style and then just highlighting a different name.
Not to different from the rest of the adds.
comercial adds are somehow all marketing for the same, just having a different company/product.

I like those that have some transformative message/meaning.

@pawlowa i like the way you're thinking, but it does not make the "fucking shit"-graffiti on my flat's outer wall, which was obviously written by a three year old, in any way beautiful.

True. There is also a lot of territorial pissing and toxic masculinity involved. Well yeah, and not so well painted pieces...

@pawlowa the only graffiti that really bothers me is when some kid decides to branch out onto old bridges or brick buildings - that cant just be painted over when we’re sick of seeing your tags & its something you wont get back

Admittedly tho philly’s full of murals so theres not actually a ton of graffiti (or from another perspective, theres a TON of graffiti its just not illicit) so maybe its different here because of that

@pawlowa I think they are bothered. It's a bit like rainy weather. People complain about it because they know it's not always rainy. If it would be always rainy they wouldn't complain. They complain about #graffitis because they know it could be different if only the law would not be broken.

@pawlowa I can agree that advertising is often clutter. But at least most of it actually says something meaningful, whereas a lot of graffiti is really just noise and often isn't even legible. Exceptions do exist, such as the "Be Someone" graffiti in Houston which has become something of a landmark.

I really like good graffiti art, not so fussed about the half-assed scribbles that some people put over other (good) art though

@pawlowa most graffiti is better thought out, more colourful, and more interesting too!

@pawlowa I need to open up a marketing firm that specializes in graffiti 👩‍🎨 I think.

@pawlowa I think the important difference is: While in case of the usual ads the owner of what ever is showing the ads around explicitly asked or agreed with it, this is often not the case with graffiti.

If people say "Oh yeah, it's fine when you paint my wall" it's legal and fine to put graffiti on it.

@pawlowa It's not about manipulation tho, it just looks ugly. Plus, people like things being organized, which graffiti isn't.