heyyy uh

quick reminder

ESR took a cool counterculture and got his shitty right-wing UNIX ideology all over it—he's not just a bad person, he's a exceptionally bad historian and you shouldn't take his word for anything, the jargon file that he "curates" reflects nothing like an actual 70s/80s programming culture.

here's a pre-ESR jargon file for reference:

@nightpool He hasn't curated the Jargon File since 2002. I do that now.

@bob i'm guessing >80% of everyone who is referencing the jargon file is referencing the version, which does not look like it's been updated since 2003

@nightpool Yes, that's an old version. A lot of new jargon has been invented since and some old jargon has changed its meaning.

@bob that's cool but i have never heard anybody mention it—for most people the jargon file is a document frozen in time in 2003 that pretends to be a document frozen in time in 1980s

@bob if I was collecting a jargon file today i would probably want to start whole cloth then trying to sort through the messy baggage handed down from esr

@nightpool It's sometimes amusing how quickly new jargon appears and becomes like something that's always been there. When ESR last maintained the file the term "blog" and "blogosphere" didn't exist. "Drone" meant something like "oh, she's just an office drone" rather than a flying robot.

@kragen @bob I would also like to know this. I have been semi-seriously considering doing an update myself since about 2008

@bob @nightpool So what's your editorial policy for Raymond's changes to the original? Are you keeping them, reacting them, something else?

@mjog @nightpool Where they make sense I've kept them, otherwise they're edited or removed. None of it is sacrosanct, although it's nice to keep some older terminology for historical reference.

@nightpool "The JARGON file is being updated. The guy doing so has
changed the nasty references to Unix to refer to MS-DOS
because "all the ITS partisans have now become Unix
partisans, since the Unix philosophy is the same as the
ITS philosophy." as he says."

@nightpool it's great to know that I accidentally picked up a tainted version of the jargon file as one of my first experiences with the internet. :o(

(I've favored Unix because it's the least-shit modern OS)

@Satsuma @Denderix @nightpool no reference to his seminal work "sex tips for geeks" that I can see anywhere on that Wikipedia page, how odd

@nightpool seriously, the worst thing that could happen with the "neo-hacker" culture we see on the fediverse is people in technology starting to take esr seriously again after all these years of deserved obscurity

Hell, esr is probably *why* I get slight heebie jeebies from all the happy self identified "hackers" in the fediverse

@nightpool there should be a filter that replaces "esr" with "a guy who forked Carl Harris's popmail client"


Some stuff seems to be missing, or perhaps I read it somewhere else contemporaneously and mistook it for the Jargon file.

This little ditty, for one:

As I was passing Project MAC,
I met a Quux with seven hacks.
Every hack had seven bugs;
Every bug had seven manifestations;
Every manifestation had seven symptoms.
Symptoms, manifestations, bugs, and hacks,
How many losses at Project MAC?

.. and a story about several broken people in a van, late at night.

@nightpool I was hoping that existed, but hadn’t yet gone looking. Thanks!

@nightpool The question is, if yours is authoritative,, maintained, and better than ESR's, how can we make it be better known?

(Of course, authoritative in hackdom is a bit weird.)

@nightpool Hm. Quote: "GAS [as in "gas chamber"] interj. 1. A term of disgust and hatred, implying that gas should be dispensed in generous quantities, thereby exterminating the source of irritation. "

Seems not so much different in shitty rightwingness.

@nightpool did something happen to prompt this? periodic reminds of ESR's bias are no bad thing, of course. I just wonder if something popcorn-worthy happened.

@nightpool still, it reflects _some_ culture, which descended from the programming culture of 70s/80s.

Also, what does his Unix ideology have to do with his libertarianism, in this context?

@Wolf480pl because the original jargon file was strongly ideologically anti-unix

@nightpool well ok, but the Unix camp was there too, and had its lore, too, which is IMO equally worth preserving.

Maybe the way these two lores were combined doesn't reflect the conflict between them, but it's good to have them both.

@nightpool Revisiting MIT AI Lab jargon from 1983 is (a) a fascinating glimpse at a "more innocent age", with all the pluses and minuses that implies; and (b) a real trip, since nobody at MIT talked like that when I was there (2001--05).

@nightpool I totally agree. I can't STAND his "silence is golden" idea. Also saying he "curated" the jargon file gives him WAY too much credit. It existed for literally decades before he decided to write a book out of it.

@nightpool is there a “here’s what he changed” guide somewhere?

@nightpool What does ESR actually *do*? Besides maintaining that thing and being a weirdo. He just seems like a hangaround
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