The service manuals of old professional equipment are truly amazing, the schematics are shown in three different abstraction levels, every single connection is shown, waveforms at 100 different test points are drawn, every single component is listed, with step-by-step test and calibration guidelines. You can almost remove everything from the board and put it back together with a service manual.
Something that today's consumers can only dream of...
@niconiconi I’m convinced most people have no idea what’s going on anymore, all the good technical workers are dead now and we’re just grasping at straws by comparison
@redneck_happy Considering those equipment typically costs 10,000+ USD, having good serviceability and documentation is to be expected.
Nowadays, comparable equipment only a fraction of the original price with high integration, is undeniably a true improvement, some serviceability is definitely lost, I think it's fair enough bargain.
However, the only problem is: many manufacturers are going full-Apple style with _negative_ maintainability...
Having grown up around this stuff, not quite so. I've seen this level of documentation for things ranging from toaster ovens all the way up to home computers. The Commodore 64 and 128 programmers reference manuals come with complete schematics for their respective platforms, plus datasheets for all the custom parts inside.
TVs and radios used to even have these details on a sticker *inside* the chassis at one time.
I thought things would be more “put together” when i got to industry.
now that I’m here for a few years it’s apparently to me how many people operate with a very shallow understanding of science, engineering, etc.
Most people do mediocre work because they’re overworked and excellent work isn’t worth doing when you’re overworked.
@niconiconi yeah that's a huge regression, sadly…
@mmu_man My understanding is, sacrificing some serviceability is an objective outcome of higher integration, also, low reliability or even the lack of basic documentation is argued by some people as the fault of customers.
But I think bottomline that most people can agree is, manufacturers shouldn't actively stop someone from fixing it, or reporting your compatible replacement parts to ICE to seize them as "infringement" , or sending a team of lawyers to you. But unfortunately...
@niconiconi Ever read a Commodore 64 user's guide?
It teaches you EVERYTHING.
E V E R Y T H I N G !
They don't make 'em like they used to!
Yeah but it also reflects the shift in corporate mentality. Like the good ol' Volkswagen, you could modify your C64 as you saw fit. It was YOUR hardware and you could do whatever you wanted with it.
Now, the only people authorized to modify your computer are the official technicians, so there's no need to give you detailed manuals. The OS spies on you, you can't modify it and they can disable it remotely at any time.
To steal a quote I just heard on The Change Log, when cars first came out, the instructions on starting the car was two pages long because you needed to know much more.
@rick_777 @niconiconi I'm not saying there isn't a ton of wanting to sell us things instead of letting us repair. Right to repair is a subject that pushes me over the edge. Just saying there are probably lots of reasons for it.
Don't get me started. Just thought of non user replaceable batteries and blood shot out of my eyes just now.
@niconiconi I was quite impressed by LG - Searched and found a service manual for my monitor - It contained not only the part I was looking for - how to open it without destruction - but also full schematics, block diagrams, description of test points...
@niconiconi There is still one place actually two that this can still happen in high end test equipment and in Ham radio equipment, granted it is not as pretty and is a lot more sterile but does happen on some level.
@hiddensoul Ham radio for sure! These are probably the only remaining area of customer electronics which is not designed with a "DO NOT SERVICE" mindset...
@niconiconi i would like to learn how to read these schematics. do you have a good reference or book to recommend?
@davidpgil IMHO, "schematics reading" does not stand by itself, the key is to have a functional knowledge of electronics, and be able to recognize combinations of components as "function blocks", for example to tell:
(examples, not recommendations)
this is a bridge rectifier https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diode_bridge#Rectifier
this is a LC filter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_filter#T_and_%CF%80_filters
this is a voltage follower https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emitter_follower
this is an inverter amplifier https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operational_amplifier_applications#Inverting_amplifier
@niconiconi Thank you. Yes, I agree "schematics reading" wont stand on its own. The core of my question is, what course of study, maybe even a book will lead me to be able to read schematics. I have a background in a massive "swiss cheese" of topics but I haven't found the part of the cheese that leads me to learning how to use schematics to build something. I don't think I need to go to school for electrical engineering to do this. I'd like to find a book to get me started.
@niconiconi great recommendation by the way. I think this is JUST what i was looking for.
@niconiconi ... I just recently found a book named "But How Do It Know?" that really does a great job on introducing what schematics are (and what a computer is) to anyone, with no prior knowledge of computers. It starts out by explaining what a logic gate is compared to a pair of light switches that function strangely. Very nice way to explain it.
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