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masculinity 馃 isn't 馃 inherently 馃 toxic 馃

which is to say trans men do not automatically become evil toxicity contributors simply by being men

@haskal no, it isn't by nature, but we live in a society where the social structures around masculinity are

saying "masculinity isn't inherently toxic" is a lot like saying "nature doesn't see race" imo, in that, while technically true, the structures that we have built around these things make them meaningfully useless
@haskal "make them meaningfully useless" meaning that the statement effectively means nothing due to Us Living In A Society

@pea
no it's not the same thing as race because you can't change your race

masc gender presentation is _not_ inherently tied to toxicity despite living in a society鈩. trans men and masc enbies prove this every day by presenting as masc while not in fact being perpetrators of oppression. by simply existing, trans men and masc enbies are actively dismantling toxic masculinity and if all we say to them for this is actually,,,, you're not dismantling this system,, you're automatically contributing to it just because you exist in a society uwu, i think that's wrong

@pea and like, what about a trans woman who doesn't pass? or amab enby who's similarly mid-transition? do they contribute to the system just because they still look like a man鈩 in a society鈩? i think that implication is inherently transphobic

@haskal @pea if i were to make the devil's advocate argument here I would say that "well, conventional societal masculinity in our contemporary system is toxic, so if you want to **actually** be masculine you gotta be toxic too"

haha checkmate transmascs unless you oppress people you're fake

@haskal yeah like

i'd love to not have body hair and a flat chest and stuff

but as long as i do, i might as well lean into it and have some amount of love for my body the way it is, rather than desperately trying to mold it in ways that are incredibly inconvenient for me

@efi trans men have a right to exist and be men without getting absolutely hounded by their fellow queers
that is all

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