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life hack:

you can just say "websearch" instead of "google"

there is more than one search engine

don't internalize the brands' language

· brutaldon · 29 · 143 · 162

@polychrome @grainloom I've been insisting for ages that they need to do this marketing campaign. 😆

"Looking for something? Just Duck It!™️" 😆

@polychrome also works but i'd like other alternatives besides DuckDuckGo to take off (even tho that's what i use. but don't egg your baskets or whatever. don't wanna have to clean egg goo off.)

@half_cambodian_hacker_man maybe, tbh idk that much about trademark law or what effects that would have

@grainloom @half_cambodian_hacker_man Just a disclaimer that I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding of trademark law is that if a name is used generically enough, and the public doesn't associate it with a particular brand anymore, that causes "genericide", where the trademark is no longer valid. But with Google, that would take a looooooooooong time if it could happen at all, the name "Google" is definitely enshrined in people's minds as the name of a company (heck, I don't think most people even know that Google is technically owned by a company called "Alphabet, Inc"; everyone just calls it "Google").

@diligentcircle @grainloom @half_cambodian_hacker_man My understanding is that transformation of the brand name from a noun to a verb can also be a source of genericide.

So, I wouldn't call another search engine "a google," but if you say, "google it" than the later is helping to reduce the validity of the brand.

Google in the early days even had a campaign to try to stop people from verbing their name.

@lordbowlich @diligentcircle @grainloom @half_cambodian_hacker_man Adobe still has a (hilarious) page on their site warning about using "photoshop" as a verb...presumably for this same reason. adobe.com/legal/permissions/tr

@reedbeta @lordbowlich@hackers.town @grainloom @half_cambodian_hacker_man Yeah, that's exactly it, they're trying to prevent genericide. In their case I think they're actually losing that battle, everyone says "photoshopping" to just mean "image editing". Google has a similar page for their own trademark:

google.com/permissions/tradema

@grainloom honestly "look it up" sounds so much better than "google it" anyway like google is a fun word to say once and then it gets old

@dragon that could work, but "websearch" is more specific imho, it implies the use of some indexing service

@grainloom on the other hand, if googling becomes like hoover they could lose their brand name which could be neat

@jerry oh i definitely bing it, if you know what i mean :bloblewd:

@grainloom Big agree. I personally just say "search" unless context isn't enough

@grainloom you can also culture jam it if you're feeling clever. as an example:

:blobyeensad: - "okay google how to delete someone else's post"

:blobyeengrin: - "okay ecosia how to recycle someone else's post"

@grainloom refer to any search as googling except those done on Google. Call those bings.

Then the net will run with the blood of trademarks.

@grainloom you should also just be able to say Google because that language is more accessible without getting scrutinized by techies.

@grainloom I can partly agree, it's uncomfortable and weird to say "googling" for things. It doesn't feel right. But as some others in the thread here have said (@spacekookie) they can loose their brand.

In Sweden we used to have a brand named "Mack", it was a gas-station brand. They established that good that everyone still say that they go to a "Mack" to re-fuel their car. But the brand "Mack" haven't been seen for the past 30 years (got sold and sold and sold again).

@sa0bse @grainloom sometimes I'll say "googling" when I just mean searching (in physical space 😅)

@spacekookie @grainloom I do like that, it's fun and it's a thing I may pick up on :D

@grainloom

"Google" means to websearch within the limits of what google allows. it's like riding a bicycle very fast down a narrow path between two hedges full of thorns and poisoned berries.

@grainloom On the other hand, using it generically has (or soon will) remove their trademark, because it will be known as a common word - like xerox or kleenex. That's why goog insists ppl capitalise it. If you do use it, NEVER capitalise it!
In any case, search with duck duck go or yandex - anything but the Borg's own search engine.

LB: I definitely need to get better about that. Even tho I use ddg the most I tend to still say "google" :blobfacepalm:

@grainloom I thankfully learned this early on, it was Photoshop to begin with for me

@grainloom Galaxy brain: If you use it to mean searches on not-Google enough Google will lose their copyright

@grainloom I agree but also think there is value in destroying a tradename/trademark by making it generic (e.g., kleenex is now included in many dictionaries as a generic terms that refers to ANY brand of facial tissue). IP lawyers hate this one weird trick (even though marketers probably love it, so I'm kinda torn, tbh).

@ink_slinger @grainloom i know i'm a bit off- topic, any one used metager?

can that work on mpbile too?

@microbe11 @grainloom I've never used it. For search engines, I mostly use Startpage or Ecosia. Sometimes I also use DuckDuckGo.

@ink_slinger @grainloom thank you, these and Searx.Site i used too, i should have to ask in a more #security & #privacy specific way. so have a nice evening, mic

@grainloom I tried telling people I "DuckDuckGo'd it" but that didn't catch on...

@grainloom

I enjoy watching people 🤯 when I tell them I was googling something on the Bing.

Using the brand as the generic is one of the few ways we the people can usurp a brand's power. Trademark law says we can "win" the brand if we genericize it. Force the company to rebrand if they want to hold a valid trademark. It's a tiny win, of course, but a win people have long tried to hold over corporations.

@courtney

@grainloom I see a lot of people talking about trademark genericization, and unfortunately they are all wrong, because genericide doesn't work that way. Not only do consumers have to use the mark to refer to competitors, the registrar must not take legal action to protect their mark, and it would help if (extending the first requirement) an "average consumer" would be unaware that it even is a protected trademark or have no generic term to substitute even if they are.

@grainloom Google has sent letters to publications requesting that they do not use the term generically, and so far no competitors have actually adopted the name (which Google would be required to sue to protect their mark when they become aware of them, or lose their protection). So, "Google" is not at any risk of losing their trademark, as happy as it would make us all to see that.

@grainloom On the subject of people not even knowing that a seemingly generic term is a trademark, you should generally keep quiet if you do learn of such a case. Because if you tell people about the brand, you are actually strengthening their case for them for free. For that reason, I won't provide any such examples even though I read a list of dozens of them. If the company wants people to know that they own the mark, they should have to spend their own money on that.

@grainloom honestly i have ddg as my default and it sucks so hard i very often have to use google - i kind of wish it and bing didnt exist, so google would have to face monopoly regulation like it ahould

@grainloom @vfrmedia all the kids, not yet born during the rise of google, say “search it up”, and fail to recognise “google” as a verb as anything more than a weird old people thing like saying “click” instead of “tap”

@grainloom @vfrmedia incidentally, “photoshop” as a verb means (apparently) “making a thing look like a different thing by sticking something in front of it.”

@grainloom I say duck it meaning search duckduckgo.com for it
@grainloom I'm sure commands like site:YouTube.com might still work
@grainloom sorry. I forgot what we were talking about... yes just use web search

@grainloom ironically if you do use "Google" as a verb then Google run the risk of losing their trademark due to brand name genericization

@TerrorBite has been suggested before, probably wouldn't make a difference at this point if they did

@grainloom adopting a different term would just be a band-aid though. (language is malleable like play-doh, you know.)
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