@grainloom nah tcl is trash iirc

@grainloom It's eval model is really simple but the different levels of quoting will drive you nuts:

http://antirez.com/articoli/tclmisunderstood.html

@ckeen
oooh, hopefully now i'll get the "zen of Tcl" or whatever

I've been reading the BRL-CAD tutorials but they don't seem to really go into the language

@ckeen @grainloom I finally understand tcl. Well, a little bit.Incredible.

@lupine @grainloom I am glad to be of help :)

@elomatreb @Riley
at least Lua is fun to program in, but Tcl so far is. ugh.

ok, so here is an example based on the MGED manual:
> set glob_compat_mode 0
> foreach i $search_results {attr set $i color [expr {int(rand()*225)+30}]/[expr {int(rand()*225)+30}]/[expr {int(rand()*225)+30}]}

without glob_compat_mode, it doesn't even run, but it doesn't just give any error, it gives a syntax error

global vars affecting basic syntax.....

i cri

@grainloom @Riley @elomatreb Yeah the quoting rules are headache inducing!

@sn0w
ouchhhhhhhhhhh

@webmind @grainloom

Soooo, there's this whole ancient thread about how RMS disses on TCL in favor of guile.

I find it an illuminating basis for comparing RMS getting riled up about a tech thing almost totally outside the context of user freedom, almost completely about what we might call "code smell" programming aesthetics.

Don't know if you've seen it, and I don't know that I'd recommend it if you haven't. These sort of online brawls are a kind of acquired taste.

@webmind
gsoc project

@grainloom with tcl? Interesting. Didn't know it was still used.

@webmind @grainloom it's no worse than Python, and don't forget tk

@kara hmm, didn't do much in python, but it's array/list construction and escaping for one seemed more sane.

Tk I've always done without tcl.

@kara @webmind
well, my experience with it so far totally _is_ worse than Python
Python has:
-clojures
-generators
-modules
-IPython
-better error reporting (so far, Tcl syntax errors didn't even give me a line number, not to mention a column number or a backtrace)

and since its simplicity and extensibility didn't allow it to adapt those features, i don't think it's extensible enough to make for the lack of them.

@kara @webmind
i haven't read the RMS rant that compares it to Guile but I'm inclined to agree that Scheme would have been a better choice for MGED
after having written a lot of DSL stuff in Lua and quite a few shell scripts, Tcl just feels incredibly clumsy
and I love languages with few concepts but Tcl so far is not one of them :/

but this is all with the huge disclaimer that I've only used the Tcl embedded in BRL-CAD. other versions might suck less

@webmind @grainloom it's big in EDA. we (have to) use it for building FPGA bitstreams and automating other HDL stuff.