5alive is a user on cybre.space. You can follow them or interact with them if you have an account anywhere in the fediverse.

Can we get rid of the idea that the "other sex" is impossible to understand and the other related stupidness, that a man and a woman can't be friends?

@grainloom that died with gender in 2015, right? Am I on the wrong branch?

@amsomniac my roommate just said "Tfw you have to understand what bothers a woman"
so... sadly no

@grainloom @amsomniac why is your roommate using chan memes from 2012?

@5alive @grainloom @amsomniac welcome to people who browse reddit, population also my roommates

@5alive @chr I mean, the Rust subreddit seems nice. But yeah.

5alive @5alive

@grainloom @chr yeah, niche subreddits with communities that organize mainly outside of Reddit itself are usually fine, but we know what happens to the general population.

I'm waiting for mastodon to get enough people to start working on a federated Reddit clone that uses idk homomorphic encryption or CRDTs for decentralized voting with vote totals computed per user. Don't like the community on a particular instance? Their votes don't count anymore.

· Amaroq · 7 · 10

@chr @grainloom But only from your perspective. Their votes would still count within their own communities. This avoids the problem of a toxic culture overtaking a large subreddit, without having to shunt users into more specialized opt-in communities.

@5alive @chr oooh that sounds pretty damn amazing!

@grainloom @chr I think so too. I'm pretty excited about the potential for homomorphic encryption to allow for decentralized, anonymized voting protocols. People often neglect the implications this has for social dynamics, but now that people can see the effect of decentralization on toxicity in communities by what's happening in mastodon, I think it'll be easier for people to see the impact that certain new forms of computing can have.

@5alive @chr @grainloom I do think that putting filtering tools in the hands of users, and making the assumption that in the future "nodes" won't even be a thing (ie a more p2p future) and planning "how could we have effective filtering then" is worth thinking about.

@5alive @chr @grainloom This notion of relative trust in Reddit-like voting reminds me of reputation systems, which I don't know too much about, beyond what an acquaintance of mine wrote about a few years ago. From a community design perspective I think you've hit on a very interesting direction to pursue. (His site's dead now but Wayback to the rescue: web.archive.org/web/2015021506)

@chr @grainloom the other problem for systems like this has always been Sybil attacks, I.e., sockpuppeting. This could be dealt with by having instance admins issue voting privileges to only trusted users. An instance might allow any user to vote, but then you can decide to simply not federate with them.

@grainloom @chr A problem that I don't know if it's solved or not: The homomorphic voting schemes I know about only reveal a tally after everyone has voted. This wouldn't be suitable for a Reddit clone, since we need periodic tallies. But a voice in my head tells me that something akin to how anonymized cryptocurrencies work might be applicable here. The problem is that if you know the vote total before and after Alice votes, then it's obvious how she voted even if her vote was encrypted.

@chr @grainloom maybe I care too much about keeping voting history secret. Maybe we can all just be good friends and not be ashamed about which websites we like or dislike.

@5alive @grainloom @chr I really wish I could work on something like this. Unfortunately, I already have two projects I'm not working enough on...

@Terrana @grainloom @chr You could always help by boosting and getting more people involved in the discussion. :3

@5alive @grainloom @chr A federated AP based reddit clone came up recently on the /r/linux subreddit reddit.com/r/linux/comments/6z

Using CRDTs for ranking is an interesting idea.

@cwebber @grainloom @chr Thanks for sharing this thread!

Re: CRDTs, it's a pretty vague notion in my head right now but I just do what the voices tell me and it usually works out.

@5alive @grainloom @chr please dear god let post scoring never come here. I feel that people begin to behave in what would get them the most score instead of what actually might contribute to the topic at hand.

@Yarideki @grainloom @chr That is certainly a problem and I don't think mastodon itself needs to have these features. But also, we already have favs/stars/florps/whatever.

@Yarideki @5alive @grainloom @chr People here already occasionally behave in ways designed to get boosted. I agree we should stop this behavior.

@5alive @grainloom @chr I'm generally nervous about homomorphic encryption since most things one might want to compute are super expensive with current FHE systems, but I guess voting is basically the one thing partial HE is good at? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paillier describes part of what you suggested. I don't see how you can verify that no voter upvotes twice or more in one vote though, or extract the final vote tally on a per-user basis without a trusted third party holding the decryption key.